Joanna: When you're hired to do a job you're the expert on that job. So we want you to be the expert and we're going to talk a little bit about how to do that.

James: Many times as a video person, Jo I've had the request for shoots and it's been to, "Hey we'd love to do it outside but the only time that works is between noon and 2 p.m." and as video and photography person you know that that is one of the worst times to be outside shooting any kind of imagery. Why? The sun is high. You get really bad you know shadows across the face and people are squinting because it's glarey. It's a really bad time to shoot most of the time like anywhere in the world really between 12 and 2 is bad but people have this expectation well you'll just make it work and the reality is.

Joanna: Or they think it's the opposite that it's really a great time.

Jamnes: "It's really great. the sun's right up, it's awesome."

Joanna: "It's so sunny out!"

james: And that's that is that is the time as an expert for you to basically say "no like we should avoid that at all costs. And if we must must shoot you in that time I'm sorry. It needs to be inside where we can control the lighting and make sure that the person on camera looks good because if I go ahead and just back down from that and do as you want you're going to probably be upset with me in the end because you're going to look at the final things like why do I look so bad." Yeah. Or "why does that person they're squinting the whole time it doesn't look great." And so that's where you need with experience. And if you've especially been hired as an expert in any kind of field to always use the knowledge you have and not be afraid to kind of stand your ground that's actually what you've been hired for. And sometimes that's giving an answer or a response that the person you're dealing with isn't actually going to like but you're probably actually saving them from themselves.

Joanna: Yeah. That's it. I mean even in a church staff if you're in a position that's you are the one in charge of whether it's your official title or not if you're the one in charge of communications and media. That doesn't mean you're a know it all. But you have been given the job of being the expert. And so own it and advise people with great advice based on your expertise. And sometimes that means I find this all the time people think an edit will take one hour and it'll take actually a full day to do that little quote unquote little change or yes someone wants to shoot outdoors and you know that it's going to be way too hot or the location they have this oh this beautiful location they want to shoot you know that you won't get any good audio there because it's crazy windy on that I don't know that cliff overlooking the waterfront or it's there's too many sirens going by it's crowded or it's illegal to fly a drone there I don't know whatever it is.

James: All those things you just said are all things I've had happen, Absolutely yeah.

Joanna: Yeah. And the same with I don't know things with like a postcard and someone says oh I saw this picture that I really want to use and you know that that picture is terrible for whatever reason because you're the expert and there are ways that you can kindly not defend yourself. That's not the word I'm looking for. You can advocate for the expertise that you bring because that's why they've hired you. And you know what. At the end of the day trust is built over time. So sometimes that person is not going to go with the expertise that you offered and then it's not an "I told you so" obviously we want to be gracious with people but over time as we as we see the results of that we begin if they took our advice or they didn't. They begin to see the value of our advice and the more we do it the more they trust us.