Joanna: There's a couple of books that I give to my summer interns every year and I want you to know about them because maybe you want to add them to your summer reading list.

James: Right you gonna give us your summer reading list. I was gonna say something to the effect of I don't read much. Then I realized that people would be confused that I don't know how to read. It's not that I don't know how to read but with two small kids at home.

Joanna: Yeah, you're a dad.

James: It is hard to find time to just sit and read. I am an audiobook listener so I know some of the books you're going to mention. I'll have some opinions on because I've listened to them on audiobook.

Joanna: Oh right on.

James: Which just works into my lifestyle as far as driving to lots of different places throughout the week. It's way easier for me to be able throw on something during that driving time and consume it just in a different way. Why don't you start sharing some of this.

Joanna: And later this summer we'll do the the summer viewing list. We're gonna give some creative ideas later on the summer of some things to watch if you're not a big reader. That's OK or audio listener. That's all right. There's lots of other resources we can learn in so many ways. But here's the two books that I have typically there's so many others. Maybe we'll dive into a fall reading list if you want more book recommends. But the book that I always give to my interns is called Creativity Inc. By Ed Catmull and that's book about the start of Pixar. This guy was the creative lead for many many years and founder co-founder of Pixar Animation Studios. He's won Academy Awards in all this kind of stuff. But it's this amazing story of tracing the ups and downs of the creative process of building from the ground up. This amazing creative industry basically that I think a lot of us have been personally connected to and impacted by the work of Pixar and so I think it helps us to read books that aren't just Christian books to read books about creativity and the process of building media that get us to think larger than our own organizations. Obviously Pixar is a huge huge brand and it gets us to think bigger, farther and outside of the church box.

James: Absolutely and it's a fashion that's what I have listened to an audible. It is it's really long it's like 15 or 16 hours I think so it's really long. It is a big book and it is great because the stuff he was working on way back in the 60s and 70s I mean computers were the size of a room and yeah look at what Pixar has become now and it's just amazing like the quality but it was it was all about kind of navigating different team members and pulling people in and out and thinking outside of the box and and.

Joanna: And going back to the book it wasn't working. How can we fix this let's throw this away and start again. It's stuff that applies to all of us.

James: Yeah and he was with the company for four decades really and so it's definitely an inspirational story. And it's good you can pull lots of good nuggets as a creative person,

Joanna: It's common sense.

James: On how to stick with it and there's lots of great principles in there and it's really fastening because I think everyone kind of knows what Pixar is in a scene at least one Pixar movie.

Joanna: Yeah there's the second book I wanted to bring to people that I always give to my interns was a book that actually one of my mentors originally recommended to me. My mentor Jenny Catrin if you know Jenny Catrin she does leadership training all over U.S. in a bit of Canada and so the book is called Strengthening the soul of your leadership by Ruth Haley Barton. And in brief this is the Christian side of things this is where I'm trying to develop my interns their professional skills but also their spiritual emotional mental health. And it's a book that if practiced I think helps us to not burn out in our work helps us to remember keeping the main thing the main thing which is Jesus and really just about some of the spiritual practices of Christian life that I think can be foundational to any work that we do as Christian media and communications people. So it's a book that I would recommend to anyone who is a Christian but particularly if you're working in this kind of work. I think it's something we can neglect. And so we want to strengthen the soul of how we lead.